Involvement

Aliyah: Yeah, so for- I guess I'll kind of go in order, because I think that would make the most sense. And so for football I had seen, you know, the practices and whatnot, and, you know, I just decided to kinda go for it, and I emailed the head coach at the time he has- he's not there anymore, but I emailed him, and I, you know, express my interest in being part of the team in any way that I could be. It wasn't necessarily- I didn't know I wanted to do video yet, it was just kind of however they needed to help, I wasn't even sure, and he was like, “Yeah like, come down and meet with me. I'd be happy to kinda explain you what we do, and in what way we might need help,” and, you know, I went down that first week, and I pretty much started with them probably that week, or if not the week after, and that's where I met one of my best friends later someone who I still talk to today. And so I was able to come and kinda work with them doing video, so we would film practices and games. It was definitely something, an adjustment. I did not film anything in high school. I did work with a football team, but it was more in like of, I guess, an athletic training sense, you know. We helped with equipment, we helped with water, any medical thing that happened kind of minor medical, you know, taping and stuff like that, but it was definitely adjustment, because I had never done that before, so doing that in college, was something that- it was new to me, but I really caught on fast, and it's something I really enjoyed. I still—I did at Minnesota as well, so that was really awesome to be able to continue that there. But I would say for me, I think that kind of really, you know, started to build a foundation for my interest in football and sports, and really made me, you know, it made me kind of realize, you know, why I chose this- chose the major I did, and kind of solidified my interest, so it made me feel really good to be able to help in that sense. And I also got to travel with them towards, I think it was maybe my third and fourth year, just because there were other people there who had, you know, been there for longer, but being able to, kinda, you know, go with the team, it really felt like I was part of the team, you know, being at that smaller university like I had mentioned, you know the players, they knew you by name, they, you know, knew what you did for the team, and kind of being in the office, they would come in, and, you know, hang out and talk with the coaches, and it just really felt like a family, a second family in a way. Besides, you know, the people I had met in classes and the dorm and everything, and so that was a nice part of my college career that, I mean I stayed with it all four years. I definitely felt kind of weird to leave at the end, because it was something that was consistent for me throughout my time there, but I'm really glad I did it, and I was actually able to continue. I did it one of the two years I was at Minnesota because of Covid, but it was still nice to be able to continue that. And then intramurals you had mentioned, like I said, I grew up playing soccer and so I wanted to continue that. I knew that our college team was very good, and in high school, you know I was- I was on JV all my years, and so I was like, you know, it's a lot of pressure to be on the try out for the team here, and, you know, I didn't even want to do club because that was a big commitment, and especially with football I wouldn't have been able to do it, but I was able to get some friends together to do intramural soccer, so that was fun. I think I did that maybe two different seasons, but it was really cool, especially once they built that new soccer field behind Reuter. I don't know where the new soccer field was before, or the old soccer field was, I think it was maybe just behind that fence. But that new soccer field was very nice, and, you know, just a way to come together with friends, kind of take a break from, you know, school and the stress of life, and just be able to have fun, and, you know, I really remember, if we were really that good or what not, but it was just fun to come together and still play the game that I loved, and, you know, I miss soccer right now, too. I was able to coach actually some little kids in Minneapolis. That was really fun. But I haven't really been able to do a lot of soccer since then, so it's just been- that was kind of a nice way to kind of incorporate something I still loved into my daily or weekly life, I guess. And then I think you had mentioned, the last thing was that tournament that we planned. So one of the classes, I think it's still part of the curriculum was Event Management, I think it was something like that, Sport Event Management, and so part of that was planning a athletic event from start to finish. So basically building it from scratch. The event that the class had or was structured to plan each year was a wheelchair- wheelchair basketball tournament. It was called Wheels For All. I think it's every semester that the classes is offered. So it was really cool to be able to, you know, have that event so participants, you know, would- they would be in a wheelchair and play basketball, you know, it was for everyone, you know, whether you were in a wheelchair or not. It was a very inclusive event, and it was really cool to see everyone come together for that. It got a lot of the local communities involved, different businesses as well for donations and stuff like that. But being able to plan, you know, the donation part that, you know, whatever went on behind the scenes of logistics and everything, and then just being able to execute the event from start to finish was really cool. And it was something your class worked on together, you know, you were in different teams. You know, one was donations, and one was social media, and then the other, I don't even know what the other team was. I think I was on the donations one, and so everyone in our class had to, you know, go ask businesses for donations, and if they wanted to support how they wanted to support the tournament, and so for me, I think, you know, everyone had to go talk to two, but I think since I was on that committee, maybe a couple more than that. But I think just having those three different experiences, you know, intramurals, working for the football team, and then this really helps solidify my interest in sports and basically, I think it just made me realize and appreciate that I had chosen the right major just because I think it really, you know, enhance my college experience having those parts of my college career be also related to my major.

Aliyah: Yeah, so for me, I mean, I think all of us have probably seen, you know, how sororities are portrayed in movies, and that was, I think, one of my biggest fears. But coming to UWL, it being a smaller school, a- I definitely- it was not the case, I would say, it was a very, very different experience than I think you would have at a larger school. And so in that sense, I think, if that's the reason, maybe, why you might be a little fearful of joining, I would say, you know, just explore it, it's very different than what you would think. But we had our weekly meetings, so that was a nice time to see everyone. For me, I joined in the spring of my Freshman year, so I had actually known, I- I think I'd seen their, you know, posters and stuff like that at the Involvement Fest that were had around campus. But one of the girls that I went to high school with was gonna transfer to UWL, and she eventually did, but her sister was in one of the sororities there, and so I think I had, you know, that was the one I had joined, and so I think I knew a little bit more about that one, or I had looked into it more. But I think it kind of just became something where I went to one of their events, and, you know, I really saw how it was very different from the bigger schools and the stereotypes that I had seen in movies and stuff like that, and that they actually made that a very big part of their chapter is making sure that you know it was a different kind of experience, I think, than, you know, what is typically portrayed, and, you know, breaking the stereotypes that people typically think of. But for me, I think, joining that, it was really cool, because, you know, we had different events. We did different events with the fraternities that were there, we did events with just our chapter. It was so- and we also did, you know, community service, like I said, or they had a lot of- we had a Red Dress Brunch every year, so as a fundraising event. And it would raise money for heart health, that was the philanthropy that they kind of followed. And so I think for me, just being able to, you know, have that other avenue of things to do, you know, I had my major, I had my dorm life, and just having another thing on top of that, you know, at times I think it was stressful to keep a balance, and definitely, as time went on, I did stay in it my four years that I was there, but it definitely became a little tougher at the end, just in terms of time management. But it was something I always made time for, and I think, just having the different things that you could do within the chapter was really awesome, and I'm glad that I did- was in it, and I still do talk to the- some of the people from that chapter still today.

Tiffany: When you say that the UWL chapter was different than the stereotypes, and they sort of promoted themselves in that way, can you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that?

Aliyah: Yeah, I think for me, at least, every time I've just seen movies, it was, you know, all they do is party, or they go out and drink, and they don't, you know, do anything to help the community, or to even like support each other, and so I think for me, learning the how different that was, you know, I felt very supported, I felt like everyone was there to encourage others to be better. I also felt like they wanted to be involved in- in things, you know, it wasn't just all about themselves. It was, you know, we did community events, we did things on campus. So I think just for me, I had always seen those stereotypes, as, you know, partying, and, you know, being very self-centered, and so I think, breaking those, or at least being able to see how those were not the case definitely made my experience a lot better.

Katy: So [Eta Sigma Gamma] is a national health education honorary. The only people that can join are people within the Public Health and Community Health Education major. And so you hear about it in your like first block classes. So you know it's kinda like, “oh, geez! Well, they're telling me I should go to this, so I should go.” And it was a good experience. I am glad I did it. It really—l I think it helped me get to know the people in my major a lot better. Even though you go through the program as a cohort, for the most part you do get to know those people pretty well just from being in the same classes with them. But I think it also—it kind of helped me get to know some of the older individuals in the major as well. So like people I didn't have any classes with, but they were really good role models. So that was nice. But yeah, it was just a good experience—like there was speakers that would come into our meeting sometimes, or you know we would…We had to have volunteer hours just like most other clubs, so they would host or like let us know about things going on, whether it was on campus or in the community where we could volunteer and get those hours. [I’m] trying to think of some of those [opportunities] where, like you could volunteer at the Kane Street Community Garden. Or like—oh, my gosh, I forgot what it’s called—but you would just like package condoms, and they would bring them out to bars or places around town that would give them out to people for free. So things like that were really cool…it was part of the major. So it just made sense…

Megan: And then what made you decide to become an RA [Resident Assistant]?

Katy: My freshman year RA was awesome. I loved her, and I still… I would consider us as friends. Like I would talk to her quite a bit last year, and in the year before that…she was a good role model. And I was, kind of like “I don't really want to live on campus anymore. But I also don't really want to live off campus…because I don't just like having a part time job”—it was really stressful. Like having to drive to your job and all these things. So I was like, “okay, well, I had a really good experience with my RA. And I think I could do it. I think I could do that. I think I could do that job pretty well.” And like I said, [it] gets me out of my comfort zone a little bit. So yeah, I just wanted a new experience and something that would kind of push me out of that comfort zone. And it did. It definitely did so…Also, I just love helping people. I'm a helper. So [a] very clear line there, like you're helping people as an RA all the time. So yeah, that was probably the main reason.

Megan: And for anybody that like might want to become an RA…what sort of things did you do for that job?

Katy: So my first year was actually kind of weird because it was fresh out of—like still pretty fresh into COVID. So like I mean, it started in August of 2020. So that year was a bit different than a normal year, and even last year was a little bit different than I think a normal year would be. But kind of speaking to like my senior year experience, that was more normal. You know you plan events for your residents. You can kinda you can do as much or as little as you want. Something I did a lot was “Cookies and Coloring,” because my residents were obsessed with coloring. And it was easy—l like all I had to do is print stuff and go buy cookies, and that was it. And like that brought a really good group of girls together. They always came to those, and like they hung out all the time. So it was good to see that. But yeah, planning events, just like being there for them—you know, being a resource person. Answering questions, whether it's about like if you've taken these certain Gen. Eds. And you—especially if you work with first year students—helping them kind of navigate classes, and how to sign up for classes. Like, yeah, Professors who you've taken, who you've heard other people have taken [or] who they might not wanna take, things like that. Doing 2D rounds the last month were [?]. Staff meetings—just you know spending time with your other team members. That's—like, that’s not a job expectation, but it is a pretty big part of it, I would say—like you just naturally spend a lot of time together because you all live and work in the same building. So, just kind of happens. But yeah… those are kind of the big pieces, I would say.

Megan: And then you had also talked about earlier that you did the intramurals and stuff. So would you say it was difficult balancing school with the activities of being an RA, part of that club, plus the intramurals? Finding that balance?

Katy: Honestly? No, I don't think so…sometimes it could be tough, just because—like for me, Eta Sigma Gamma meetings were seven to eight on Mondays. Like every other Monday. But then, every Monday, as an RA, you have staff meeting at eight o’clock, so sometimes those days would get a little long. Or the evenings would get a little long if I had to run from the U [Student Union] all the way back to Angel [Hall] in like 5 min to get to staff meeting. But I mean it’s not—it's not like huge. It wasn't a huge thing. Intramurals wasn't too bad, either. Just because I think I did those on the weekend like whatever day I had. I think it was like a Sunday or something so it wasn't too bad, it at least didn't interfere with anything I would have going on during the week. So that was nice. But no. You just have to manage your time effectively, and sometimes as an RA that can get hard. But I mean if you plan it out while, like you know, planning your days, that you're on duty and that kind of stuff. It's not too bad, and you know you live where you work, too. So it's not like you have to account for like travel time, or things like that. So, as long as you manage your time, it’s not too bad.

Alex: Absolutely. I'll kinda start at my freshman year and go through. I—well [it] started in high school—I was very much a joiner. I liked to join organizations and be involved in making things happen with a group of people—shocking looking at what I'm doing now but [laughs]. I came into my freshman year in Sanford [Hall], and I was looking for that thing to join, something that I could do to really get a foothold in campus because I wanted to meet people, and I wanted to be involved in my community, just as I had done in high school. So, I remember there was a poster on the wall in Sanford Hall saying, “Join our leadership team. Run for our R.H.A.C. Representative.” So, I don't think this exists anymore, but when I was in college, we would elect two representatives from each residence hall to go to this council to talk about how we would distribute program funding and do events for students around campus. So, I ran. I don't—I can't remember, I think that there was some other folks that ran too. But that friend that I had spoke about earlier in the interview was helping me campaign for it. So we put up posters in my, you know, it was—I can't remember the slogan—but I had my face on it and “Vote for Joers” and everything like that in the residence hall. So, we put them all up. I remember I used my senior year picture from high school [laughs], which is, looking back very funny but I won that. And so I went and joined R.H.A.C. Later on, my wife would also do the same thing later that year and that's actually how we met. So we always look back to that time fondly ‘cause she ran in her hall later after me and won as well. So that's where we met, and after our R.H.A.C had passed, you know, we kind of—a lot of my representatives in the organization with me were applying to be Resident Assistants and so I thought well if everybody else is doing, and I should probably do it too [laughs]. Typical following the lead of others, but I did, and I actually wasn't sure that I wanted to do it. I didn't think that, you know, I had the personality for it, or I had the skillset to be able to, you know, supervise a community residence and be their leader. But anyway, I had a Hall Director that was very encouraging of me and said “you can do this. In fact, I'm not going to let you say no. You are going to do it.” And so she actually hired me onto her team along with my wife, who was not my—we weren't dating at the time or anything—so I think that had something to do with it. But we both accepted and so we were Resident Assistants in Drake Hall, and that was—I was very nervous about doing it. But I, you know, I think the year before that it had been the Drake Hall fire. So everybody was displaced, my freshman year from Drake Hall. So we were coming in to the new Drake Hall—it just had a new basement—but the refreshed Drake Hall [laughs], and we were kind of charged with rebuilding the community that was there and that was a really great year to be able to kind of lift everybody up. And Drake Hall was—we had all these events on campus, and where the halls would compete, and Drake Hall would often come up on top because of our community that we had built. I’m trying to remember the events that what they were called, they were like Craze Days, or something like that. So I don't know if that still happens on campus [laughs]. But after that my that same Hall Director encouraged me to apply for a senior staff position as a Resident Assistant, which again I was kind of like “I don't know if I could do this.” But, I guess somebody had seen some success in me. And I applied for that, and I got that over at Eagle Hall. So, Eagle Hall was in its third year of existence ‘cause it opened my freshman year. So by the third year they had really, you know, started to have their identity as the community and so something that I was coming in as a leader and actually really developing my leadership skills in that space, so a very exciting and very great time. My fourth year, I again made many friends because of that senior staff position that I had but my fourth year I had made some friends that wanted to move to Reuter [Hall] kind of their apartment-living style. They weren't ready to move off campus so and honestly, I probably wasn't either. So I said, “yeah, let's do it.” It was a great year. I loved it. I loved the friends that I had, was living there with, who some of them I'm still friends with today, and that apartment-style living kinda got me ready for what will come after when I would move out when I graduate[d]. So, you know, that was kind of my experience throughout residence life.

Troy: Back then, Hall Councils were…they were a strong activity, very involved. Besides the staff, the RAs in the building, Hall Council was, powerful is not the right word— active, involved. They would do weekly hall council meetings, they would plan programs. And they had also some other things like Energy Watchdog was one of the little positions that I had… Each wing had a rep, there was an Exec[utive] Committee. So there was opportunities to get involved, to make sure student voice was always very important for Res Life and it still is. But the Energy Watchdog, students who are interested in sustainability now are probably going “what the heck was an Energy Watchdog?” I would actually walk around with a little notepad and give people kind reminders of turning off lights, maybe in the wintertime closing their window. And there was a big contest or competition going on in Res Life so that the central office would monitor energy usage in the halls. And so if you were the lower use of energy, you got extra money for Hall Council which meant extra food at programs or, hey we can now take a bus trip and go roller skating, or something like that, something that costs money… I stepped into leadership slowly. But I remember, nearing the end of my freshman year, they had advertised elections for the Hall Council Exec[utive]s for the upcoming year and I was returning to Wentz [Hall]. At that time I was an Accounting major. So I remember sitting out in the lobby cause that's what all the cool kids did [laughs]. I was sitting there and my Hall Director, who their apartments are still right in the lobby. And actually, they had a desk in their apartment, which if you got in trouble you had to go into their apartment. Which is just gross thinking now, like you know I’m going to go into someone's private living space to do work. But I remember Kevin Helmkamp was my Hall Director and he said “hey Troy, are you thinking about running for a position?” And I said “yeah, I think I’m going to go for Treasurer” cause again I was going for Accounting. And he goes “think bigger Troy. I think you would be a good President.” And again, that powerful impact of that Hall Director to light a fire, or even having that belief to say, “I think you have something to offer the students who will live here next year.” I ran, and there were a couple people running and I remember making signs. We didn’t campaign or anything, but I still vividly remember the evening of the election. The current president Joe Zinke coming to my door and he said, “this room is lucky.”' And I said, “why is that?” And he goes, “well, last year I lived in this room and now I’m President. You live in this room, next year you’re President.” And so that was I mean just really fun and just an opportunity to get involved in developing leadership skills and work with not only students in the hall, but administrators from the Office of Residence Life. The orientation co-chair really stemmed from being involved in Hall Council, but again that was planning activities for that whole week prior to classes starting when the new students would move in. And we even had, we were called the WEIRDOS (Wentz Entertainment Information Recreation Delegation of Orientation Staff), something weird. But we had these weird hats. And again, it was like being a cheerleader to say “hey, welcome! Get out of your room. Come to these events. You’re gonna have a much better year if you do it.” …Think about new student orientation now, it's a campus wide event. And yes, the RAs and the halls are important in that mix, but it's really organized by a professional office.

Tiffany: Do you remember any of the activities that you were part of planning for orientation that lived up to the WEIRDO nickname? Did you do anything really wild or fun?

Troy: Well, we redid the Rudy's bus trip with the chairs, because that had just kind of gotten a life of its own and people always talked about it. I’m trying to think, some of the other ones that we did. We would do like night bluff hikes, and then campfires. I don’t know if that's really allowed anymore…we did movie nights. You know, the midnight run to D’s Donuts. Where Moka [coffee shop] is now, it used to be D’s Donuts. Starting at midnight they would sell all their day-old donuts at this walk-up window for like a nickel. It was the place that you would stop on the way back from the bars. It was the place you would go if you needed a study break…that was a whole different culture in it itself. It had a big glass window in front, so you were watching them make the fresh donuts and then you were buying the cheap ones off the day-old rack. But if you were really, really, like wanting a fresh blueberry donut or fresh apple fritter, they had the times when those donuts would come out, so then you could time your arrival appropriately.

Tiffany: So, a nickel for the day-olds. Do you remember how much it cost to get a good new one that was fresh out of the oven?

Troy: I think a dime. Big spenders we were. [Both laugh]

Tiffany: …you mentioned this a minute ago. Can you explain the bus run thing?

Troy: So, what we did at the time, every student in the dorm brought their desk chairs. And back then they were just the regular four-legged chairs. And we’d line it up on the sidewalk out in front of Wentz [Hall] and one of the orientation people served as the bus driver, and like a train conductor he’d make commands. We had people carrying paper tires. We had …like a big butcher block paper bumper sticker on the back that said, “Slow down! Bus coming through!” and whatever. And you’d pick up these chairs and walk down Pine Street and even across West Avenue and go the back way to Rudy’s Drive-In. Then we would pull into a couple of those stalls and push the button and order. You know, and so everyone got whatever they wanted. It was really a trip. Inappropriate to say now, but back then we would do the even like Chinese Fire Drills that the bus conductor would say “Stop! Get out the bus!” And we would all run around, and this is in the middle of the street. So, we did the things our parents told us not to do, we played in the street. [Trimmer laughs] But it was all done, like that was all done no alcohol. It was just fun.

Tiffany: And these were part of orientation?

Troy: Mhmm.

Troy: Sure. My first involvement was serving as a summer tutor counselor. And the Upward Bound program had been on campus since 1979. And it was defunded last August, August of [20]22. So it’s no longer on campus, but it was here for almost, what? 45, 40 some years. And it's a program that serves, the main criteria is low-income, first-generation, students. And, it’s an academic support program that helps students from those populations realize the goal of attaining post-secondary education. So the role of the summer tutor counselor was living in the dorm for six weeks with the students, doing small group activities, serving as a teacher aid in the classroom for a subject area, because the students would take classes all day. And then we were responsible for also doing activities, running recreation stuff, field trips, and then supervising high school kids [Trimmer laughs] at night. And it was very impactful. Many of the students in the program were Hmong. And again, mid-[19]80s, was a lot of students had only been in the United States for a year or two. A lot of students from Black River Falls, Native American Students from Black River Falls, and just a lot of low-income students. But it was one of those situations that I can remember feeling as a white person, “wow, I’m one of the few white people around.” Interesting enough, all the tutors were white, many of the students were students of color. But always at the end of summer, we would take a big trip and would go up to Minneapolis, Milwaukee. And we’d go on campus visits. We would do business visits as well based on what the students were most interested in, and that could be the corporate world, medical world, firefighting, police work, whatever. The Director back at the time would really work hard to arrange so many different job-shadow activities. And then there were always cultural events. And we’d go to big theaters, go to the symphony in the big city, and always stay at whether the University of Milwaukee or University of Minnesota. But that was really impactful…this was so tied to why I was passionate about education. The high flyers are always gonna soar. The students who are forgotten, or who are struggling, are the ones that really need the teacher’s help, and so I’ve always gravitated towards that student maybe who’s disenfranchised, or not popular, or just struggling. And so, it was just really a good opportunity. I ended up doing a couple summers of that. And then also during the academic year being a tutor where they’d come to campus once a week. And we would do goal sheets with them, we would keep up with their progress, we’d do study sessions. And then once a month we would do a Saturday activity. And sometimes it was cultural, sometimes it was educational, sometimes it was more entertainment. But that was really good. And that so helped me, especially when I was going into my field experiences. And it’d be fun too because I would have students who I had in Upward Bound out in my classrooms. And I just remember, when I got my student teaching placement, I got [placed] at Central High School, and being so thankful one that I was in town, that I wasn’t driving to Sparta, [Wisconsin] or anything. But then when I saw my placement, two of my courses were ESL History, English as [a] Second Language, and so working with students whose language skills, they hadn’t acquired English to the level that they could be proficient enough in the regular classes, so getting to try to figure out how do I adapt lessons I was doing into the 9th grade History class to this ESL. But I remember we were talking about World War II and Japanese internment camps and the concentration camps. And for the students in ESL, many of them had been in refugee camps in Ban Vinai [Thailand], and so it was very, very, powerful. I remember my cooperating teacher said, “wow, you got them to talk about experiences they probably have never been asked to explain.” And to tie it to something else, like the impactful learning again is so cool. Yeah, Upward Bound holds such a special place for me. I was able to work with the program here, up at [UW-]Stevens Point. And then after I was Hall Director here, I worked 3 years as the advisor in the program. So again, almost that full circle that you get to be involved as a student and then come back as a professional. Which I feel almost like everyday for me at UWL is like that because I see what students are experiencing and I always go back, oh I can remember being like that. Or when I see students walking to Whitney [dining center] I’m like going “I wonder if they are having scalloped potatoes on Tuesday?” [laughs].

Katie: It was a struggle. But I think just having a flexible class schedule, I was like “oh, I'm just gonna make the most out of my days and nights.” But that's not to say that there weren't nights that I had to stay up until three in the morning to finish a paper because I was involved in so much and wanted to do fun stuff as well. So, I definitely sacrificed sleep just to kind of do everything and fit everything in. But do I regret it? No. Like I do really enjoy being an involved person and I've met a lot of great people. You know, as an Upward Bound tutor, I really got to help a lot of people with those things that I was telling you about, that I necessarily didn't have. So, it was a high school readiness program where I would tutor in subjects, but it was also about college preparedness. So, it was how to do well on an ACT. It was how to take good notes that can prepare you for a test. It was how to, you know, get modifications for a test if you know that you have something—like if someone has anxiety or they have a learning setback or something like that. It was teaching them how to be advocates with their professors and figuring out how to get the support they needed. So, I just really valued that because I probably could have used some of that. I felt like I was giving back and preparing the next group of people who were probably going to go to UWL.

Wayne: Favorite semester. I think my favorite semester would have been my junior year. I started to get into my major quite a bit. I became a member of the Geography Club. We tended to have monthly meetings and got real close to some of the students in the same field. Got to know a few of the teachers that ran the club quite a bit. And I really enjoyed that time together because I felt like I was immersed in college, I was learning something, I was being active, and they were very good to me and I learned a lot from them.

Gavin: Yeah. And I did a little bit of research into the Geography Club and they… if I can find it here. Yeah, they met on the second floor of Cowley [Hall] in room—a 2000 level room, of course. And then you’ve already sorta answered my question for that and how…

Wayne: Well, we didn’t always meet on the second floor in Cowley [Hall]. I remember a couple times we met at the 400 Club downtown. And…

Gavin: And what’s the 400 Club?

Wayne: It was a bar. And as a college student we were thinking, “this is pretty good.” We could have a drink. We could talk about geography and where people were going and what they were gonna do and what their plans were. And as a junior, I was getting ready to go to Russia with some of the students and a couple of professors. And so we were planning that, and that was an exciting time.

Gavin: So, you went to Russia then?

Wayne: Yes. We took a class. I took a class called “Soviet Seminar.” And it was a three-credit class and we would meet usually on Wednesdays. It was usually a three-hour class and we would talk about the history, and then we’d talk about the places we were gonna go to, the geography, and then we’d learn a little bit of the language, and then we’d talk something about the politics. So, we’d have different professors from across those curriculum areas come on those given Wednesdays. And then in the Spring, when we’d happen to be student teaching at Viroqua, I was given that two-week period off through Spring Break…

[Interview stops temporarily due to a phone call.]

Wayne: And, then in the Spring we ended up going to Russia for fifteen days and…

[Kathy Barrett can be heard in the background.]

Wayne: really, really got my urge to travel once that trip commenced. There was 350 of us from Wisconsin, from all over the system, Platteville, La Crosse, Eau Claire, Whitewater.

Gavin: That all went on this one trip?

Wayne: Correct. And they were all college kids and their professors. And it really gave me the urge to do more traveling. I enjoyed that trip, learned a lot. Fred Starner, who was a teacher at the time, he was the coordinator that year. He was a calculus teacher and, but Bob Wingate, who’s still alive from what I understand, he started the program, I believe, and he took kids quite a few years before that. But Fred Starner took us that particular trip, he and his wife.

Gavin: Okay. And didn’t you say you also went to Mexico?

Wayne: Yes, I went to Mexico the following year with Virgil Holder. We spent a couple weeks—we actually drove using vans, two vans from the university—to Mexico City and back. I don’t think I’d ever do that today, but, you know, at nineteen, twenty years old, you do some of those things, and enjoyed that trip too. It was over, just after Christmas, in the first part of the year when we were having our winter break. And really, really, enjoyed that trip too.

Gavin: Yeah. And weren’t you one of the drivers down there?

Wayne: Yes, I drove one of the vans. I don’t know how or why, but I got roped into that, but I did. And had a lot of the Geography students with me, some of the History students. And I remember some were from, a couple were from Westby and a couple girls were from West Salem, a few from Holmen, one from Onalaska, myself, and quite a few others. We had one student, his name was Hashim, he was Iranian. And our professor had a hard time getting him across the border at Laredo [Texas]. Iran and the Mexican government were not liking each other too much back in the [19]70s, but eventually got him across the border and met us in Monterrey [Mexico] that evening, but told us to take off for our hotel and off we went. Yeah, interesting times.

Karolyn: I didn’t even think of it as professional development.

Tiffany: Okay.

Karolyn: And I didn’t even think of it as, like, there would be some skill development at all in it, to me it was purely social. It wasn’t until later that I made the connections. So like Residence Hall Association, I was like the R.H.A.C rep, which was the Residence Hall Association Council. And I was one the reps for Drake Hall. It was just a very social group. The advisor was Thomas Harris. Many people might remember Thomas, he worked in residence life then. And, it was just a very active if you were involved in it people knew who you were. It was kind of like if, you were in Residence Hall Association [Council] you were kind of on that peripheral of student government. And so, like you wanted your voice heard. But we did a lot of fun things you know and you did social things in the halls. It really helped to start to develop my confidence, because you know it got me out of my room and those people that you always kind of hang out with and started to connect me with others across campus. And at different levels in their academic career. And then, I think Thomas started to introduce us to, introduce me to Student Affairs, because I didn’t even know people had those kinds of jobs. You know, nobody aspires to be in Student Affairs. Who knows—you don’t even know what it is until you get here. And then you have your Hall Directors—they have actual training in that and degrees and, and so for me Residence [Hall Association Council], it was a really a great way to socialize but then it also helped me start to recognize the value of being a part of something, paying attention to how things are impacted by decisions and actions and, who's connected and who's not. It took me a while to figure out that those are good qualities to have professionally and here I was doing it just kind of for fun.

Tiffany: In terms of thinking about Residence Life or thinking about, you had a temporary stint on Student Government, right?

Karolyn: A little bit, yeah.

Tiffany: And even in sort of like your participation in the Political Science Student Association. Can you, what do you remember about like some of the key issues that in the early [19]90s like were coming up in those kinds of conversations?

Karolyn: Oh goodness, key issues? I mean I think, I don’t know if they necessarily change all that much over like in history I mean if you go back and look. I mean I think our student government now of course, they have different issues they work on. But at the end of the day, I think we were all just trying to feel like we were being heard. Like I don’t really remember, I’m sure there were hot topics, and, you know after so many years everything blends together so I’m not sure from what was then and what’s now, but. You know, I think diversity was an issue—I mean it was definitely something I didn’t, I know I didn’t understand, but I felt like I was starting to understand it and that I was gonna to fight for, more diversity and inclusion before that was even part of the conversation I think. A lot of it was just like, always thinking you had to fight against the system. But yet I felt like we had really great support from the system, from the institution. We were heard. And, it helped me realize how little students actually know. Because I got to be in conversations, and administration would bring things to Student Government that as a traditional student if you’re not paying attention, you have no idea what’s happening and impacting the things that you do and I think, Student Government to me made me realize how much of a voice we really had if we took advantage of it. Because they didn’t have—I mean they didn’t necessarily have to include us in conversations, but I’ve, I have always felt like leadership felt like the student voice was important, and would try to help the most they could, or can. But it’s one of those things as a student you think you know what’s happening behind the scenes. And then I remember I was a grad[uate] student and then I thought I really understood it because I worked in an office. And then it was when I became an employee I was like “oh gosh I was clueless as a student, and I was involved.” You know, I think about some of my friends, they, they just got up, went to class, went home, studied, went back to school. Like they just missed so much that was happening that we could’ve had more say in.

Tiffany: Do you think that’s just like the college student condition? [Trimmer laughs]

Karolyn: Yes totally, totally. Absolutely! I mean there are so many things that you are swimming through your head, and, everything that unless you have an interest in it, it’s really easy to pass it by because there are other things you want to focus on, so I think that’s very typical.

Mike: Oh, I think that provided for me a great avenue of friendships and mentorships that enhanced my college experience. You know, I looked at everything that was going on within our football program, it helped probably that we were successful throughout that era. But really and truly it made friendships and many of those people that I played college football with, I’m still friends with today. I still see them. You know maybe once a year, maybe once every few years, but it doesn't matter. It’s like if we haven't seen each other in five or ten years, we pick up the conversations right where we left off. It’s great. The mentors I had, you know, Coach [Roger] Harring, was our coach and I still conversed with him. Now it probably helped that I was in the same business of being a college football coach throughout my career, so I ran into him a lot at conventions, etc., but I consider him a mentor. And still to this day, treasure our relationship that we had. Now he’s since passed, but that I always will treasure. My mentor, who was my position coach, Mike Eayrs, we still talk. And I still like I alluded to in the beginning that first meeting he said, “those who persist, good things are gonna happen.” He was a hundred percent right. And we have a relationship still to this day that we talk to each other—actually exchanged text messages yesterday. So, it’s a beautiful thing. I think that experience of having something that you’re really tied into in the university—outside of just classes—I think is so important for young people today. Find something. Whether that’s athletics, whether that’s band, whether that’s in theater, student government. Having that experience—in-depth experience, wide-ranging experience throughout your college career—really enhances the time that you're at a university.

Tiffany: Can you tell me a little bit more about what that mentorship was like or involved? Was it conversations about how things were going on the football team? Did it ever sort of also kind of seep into academics or, what were some of those conversations that you look back on and see as mentorship-like? Or how did they fit into your college experience?

Mike: The beauty of what I call mentor is the conversations run the whole life gambit. So conversations had to do with football, they had to deal with what was going on in classrooms, career-wise and the social aspect, you know, life philosophies. It didn't matter. That mentorship was across the whole spectrum, and I think that’s what makes the mentorship. Is—yeah it might be focused maybe career-wise or for time it was focused football-wise—but it was so much more than that. It was somebody you could go in, sit down, and like I mentioned with Mike Eayrs, we probably met once a week the entire time I was a student here, and that was more than just football all the time or more than just academics.

Tiffany: We’ve talked a bit about your early experiences and your role as a student athlete. I'm curious about some of the later—your sort of later semesters here at UWL. Can you tell me something about your favorite semester of college? Something that sticks out to you all these years later as formative, or special, or meaningful?

Mike: Sure, I mean every semester had something that was really great. But I still remember my junior year, early in my junior year here, I had applied for a student teaching internship. And back then UWL had agreements with the Physical Education department with various…a few different school districts in both Minnesota and Wisconsin. And so, I applied for one of these internships which meant that if I secured one of them, I would actually get paid to student teach. Now, most of the students didn't have that, and I know that’s not in existence today, and but it was competitive. But I said, “okay, I’m gonna give this a shot.” Well, I got one of those, and but part of the stipulation was that you had an internship, whether that was for the fall or the spring of your senior year, you had to be here in the summer for in an intensive workshop, so to speak, that went for three weeks and it was all day long and it was basically a few different Education classes along with some Physical Education classes that you really worked on lesson plans, teaching methodology, all the things. How to put a budget together if you're in charge of the PE department. There were a lot of different things that went into that. And the great thing about it was just those people going on the internships. And so, it was a great group of people, we had a great group of professors, they were all focused in on this seminar going on day after day after day. And while it was a lot of work, it was so enjoyable. I learned so much in that time period that I felt very good about what was going to happen that spring then when I went and I ended up student teaching in Rochester, Minnesota and it was a great experience. But it was because of that intensity. I still remember that as one of my—I still have notes remaining in some boxes from that experience.

Ashlyn: Yeah for sure. So I think, you know, granted, different majors and programs have different job outcomes, obviously, but for students who are in a similar situation as me being, you know, a psych major and an art therapy minor like, what kind of jobs can you get? And I wish this was kind of talked about more when I was at La Crosse, but I think, you know, I definitely came out with this mindset, and I know a lot of students did, too. You're not guaranteed a job right after you graduate, and just because you have a degree doesn't mean you're gonna be making, you know, 50, 60, 70 thousand dollars a year, and I think that's a huge misconception for a lot of people, including myself. You know, granted I didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do even when I graduated. So I kind of spent the summer again, waitressing, kind of figuring out what I wanted to do, looking for jobs. And I will share, too, I think I applied for about 30, 35 jobs in the Milwaukee area over the course of about six months until I found something, one that I was offered, and two that I actually found to be interesting. And with that, too, I think it's really important to be involved on campus. Find your passion. You know, join clubs, join orgs. It's crazy to think about because I was in three main clubs, art, like Ceramics Club, Yoga Club, which is like, okay, whatever like that can get you so far. But then, like this Student Philanthropy Council that I was in. You know, promoting philanthropy across campus, and that club itself is what, you know, helped me to get a job where I'm at today. Everybody in my office now working at MSOE, like, you're working in development. What kind of degree do you even need for that? And it's like it's not about what degree you have, it's about like your extracurriculars and the skills that you've learned, and things that you've gained across your time in college. And I think that's really what landed me a job. Obviously, it's different for students who are going to school for a more specific thing. And that was another struggle too. You know, being a student during the pandemic, it was hard to gain internship experience and volunteer experience, and I think that impacted me as well. But the skills that I've learned, you know, in my clubs and orgs and that involvement, and having those things on your resume, I think that's really what's in my mind is more important than, you know, having a high gpa at the top of your resume, and here's what you graduated with. I think I didn't even put on my resume, I didn't even start with my job experience. I just put my, you know, relevant experience to the job I was applying, and the first thing on my resume was a club involvement, and it sounds kind of weird, but I think, you know, this kind of, this narrative that, you know, we all need to go to college and get straight A’s and a good gpa to get a job and get into grad school right away like you don't have to figure it out right away. And it's crazy to me, too, to think about like. “Wow, I got this job at Milwaukee School of Engineering, and I am only 22 years old.” You know MSOE is one of the top universities in the country, one of the top engineering schools, and just a few months ago I was like, “Wow, why is it so hard for me to get a job?” I just spent, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on an education, and nobody wants to hire me, like, why did I get this degree? What is psych going to even do for me? Now I'm going to have to spend even more money just to get a Master's degree, just to get a job. And I think that was the biggest frustration for me. And two I definitely would recommend for students use the Career Services as a resource. They are great. They can help you build your resume, help you look for jobs. But definitely, you know, if you want start thinking about it before you graduate. But at the same time, too, there shouldn't be a rush. Most students, you know, graduate when they're 22, 23. But you're only 22 and 23. You don't need to have your life figured out and, you know, I love my job, and I'm very fortunate to have landed this job, but I know I'm not gonna do this forever. You know, maybe a few years. See where it takes me, but it's not a forever job. And I'm not making as much money as I would have hoped, but, you know, how can, also we can't determine, like what is enough money for one person is not going to be enough money for somebody else, and I think, too, that kind of out of college salary talk is just kind of definitely like misinterpreted by a lot of people. Again, I think it's more important to be happy in a job than to make a certain amount of money, but also too, like I said, you don't need to be making $70,000 a year out of college, like most people think and want. But I think it's more valuable to spend your time being involved in your time in college, and spending time doing things you like, and really building and adding to your resume outside of academics, again, depending on what you are trying to do. But I think that was a huge thing for me, and I'm sharing that, too, with a lot of my younger cousins now. Like just find something you like to do in college and kind of go with it. Like even though, yeah ceramics, my experience with that that might not land me a job, but my experience of, you know, taking a step up and like becoming the vice president and planning things like planning events and social media, and that's, all that stuff is useful to me in my career now. Just my involvement from a Ceramics Club for a year or two at La Crosse. So just really, I think being involved is a huge thing to note. But just, you know, a little bit more about my job, too, like I said I applied to a ton of jobs, but I think, I knew when I graduated that I wanted to work with other people. I wanted to, you know, feel like I'm doing something to better people's lives, even if it's just one student whose life I can touch like I think to me that's valuable, and that's worth more to me than any salary. But, you know, forever I wanted to work with kids, with little kids, and now, you know, working with college students. I think it's pretty awesome. I think I might stick with it for a while. And it's crazy, too, because some of the students that I'm working with are the same age as me. But just, you know, being able to make that connection and feel like you're doing something for students, and, you know, particularly me like helping them raise money for things they're passionate about, like their student orgs that they're involved in, has really been awesome for me. But yeah, that's about it about my job. If you have any other questions feel free to.